Participant from Ghana: With Such Remarkable achievements can you give us some examples about what motivates you as a good leader?
President Kagame: I don’t want to pretend that I fully understand what makes a great leader. Neither will I say that there is magic that we Rwandans have used to deal with and overcome our challenges. But as they say, every dark cloud has a silver lining; some of us have been shaped by the injustice-laden lives that we have lived. Many of us grew up in the environment of poverty, statelessness and refugee life. This powers and shapes your thinking towards understanding injustice and leads you towards trying to find solutions by confronting the challenges head-on. That is how me and others came together to wage a struggle that was basically a struggle for rights and justice. Through this process a number of us are where we are today.
A struggle has to have a reason and ours was about rights, democracy, governance, justice: Different kinds of freedoms. But once you achieve all this like we have done, the challenge remains sustaining the values of the struggle; really staying the course. You have to consistently stay sober and focused on a range of issues of the day that affect not only you but other people. We are aware of situations where people have started well, fought for their rights and made progress, then succeed but then things start going wrong because something gets into their heads they change course. In general terms, I think what inspires a good leader must be based on the understanding of not only personal situation but the general situation that affects others, and how one is informed and shaped in their thinking, making the right choices in how you evolve and continue to participate to make sure that there is a sustainability in what you intend to do. and once you overcome them, you are able to stay on course all through.
Participant from Brazil: In one of your speeches you highlighted that Africa especially Rwanda needs more investment rather than international aid, that sustainability should be the aim. Can you tell us about the success of investments here in Rwanda? Do you believe that Africa is ready to stop international aid?
President Kagame: This is a very important point for people to discuss and debate, some of our views have been distorted or not properly understood . Rwanda certainly still needs development aid and still needs support. However, my point of departure is: do we need aid and support for our development so that tomorrow we need even more, or so that tomorrow we need less? I need aid and support but we don’t want to need it forever; I want to have it so that I am enabled to stand on my own feet. I am not saying anything new. we want to be supported so that we can finally stand on our own.
I am not really saying anything new; we have seen examples in history, where countries that give aid to others, have at some point in their history been in situations where they needed aid were able to receive it and moved on to be able to give aid.
The point is aid should not be one that creates dependence but one that ultimately leads to independence. Aid also has the disadvantage of eroding the dignity of the recipients; when you depend on somebody that person will dictate to you and will decide for you. Therefore, Rwandans and Africans are no less human beings and deserve no less dignity than others have. Therefore Rwandans and Africans must struggle to reach a point where they are able to be masters and deciders of their own destiny and we wouldn’t achieve that by being dependent on aid and those who donate it. I am not talking about the date or the point at which aid should stop, but are more interested in the process and the understanding that we should be moving the direction of partnering with people to give us support in the path to getting out of that situation.
Investments are very important because they unlock the energies, creativity, and innovation of people because they feel empowered and in control of their destiny. With investments there are no dictates like the ones we find in the relationship between the recipient and the donor countries, which erodes heavily on dignity. Moreover, nobody is locked out of the benefits; even an ordinary farmer in a rural setting with increasing levels of investments can get good incomes from their farm products, that is why we prefer investment to aid.
Participant from Uganda: I am deeply moved by the long strides Rwanda has taken in these few years since the genocide since 1994. Being a member of the East African Community, there is an African saying that goes “An man without his past is like a tree without roots”. As a Ugandan does mean that I cease being Muganda, a Muteso or a Munyakole. I want to know from you what is your government doing to make sure that there is equality among all the ethnic groups in Rwanda and how can that be transformed to the rest of the East Africa. Q: What is the Government doing to ensure that all Rwandans benefit from opportunities and are treated equally and how can the rest of East Africa emulate this?
President Kagame: Based on our history and understanding of our problems we have created different institutions and processes. There is the Human rights commission, the National Unity and Reconciliation Commission and others. There are also other processes that are within the same parameters like decentralization, universal health insurance schemes, universal education, etc that cater for everyone. We ensure that the basis of creation of these institutions are adhered to, practiced and implemented. Whether it is in the domain of employment, governance, decentralization, etc these institutions should ensure that citizens are treated fairly and equally by empowering them. This is what we are trying to build and we seem to be making positive progress.
Participant from South Korea: How are you planning to balance rebuilding your nation and growing your economy while ensuring that human rights especially labour rights are not violated?
President Kagame: I don’t see any conflict between growing the economy and upholding human rights at all. In fact, I see a close connection between the two. I think that this is something that we need to examine closely and find a definition for. If we look at the case of Rwanda which has an impoverished population that has other problems like malaria and other diseases killing Rwandans in thousands every year, would such things like human rights and democracy mean anything to them? They will be pre-occupied by surviving the next day rather than worrying about the respect of their rights and democracy…their priority is how to get food. If you want them to understand the values and principles of human rights and democracy, then you have to first solve their problems; food and disease. That is why I say that building the economy and human rights are more complementary than antagonistic.
In view of this, we have been making sure that we work hard to strengthen our economy. That is why when elsewhere in the world economies were suffering, we managed to register growth of 11.2% of our GDP in 2008. But then we are not just impressed by numbers; we go further and examine how this growth has impacted on the ordinary person and the overall development of our country. When we look closer, we find that a big portion of the growth came from agriculture on which the majority of our people depend. This therefore means that the growth is interpreted in what affects the majority of our people hence good progress.
Participant from USA: What steps are being taken by your government to ensure free and fair elections late this year?
President Kagame: We are very interested in having free and fair elections and I don’t want to say that we are ensuring this by merely pointing to the National Electoral Commission, or the electoral laws or documents and guidelines. The most important thing is that we are also interested in making sure that free and fair elections are held by incorporating views of the people as their idea of free and fair elections. Its one thing to have a good constitution and good laws in place and another to make sure that these are seen to work in real terms. That is where our responsibility as leaders lies; ensuring that the choices made, the mechanisms and tools we have put in place work for all of us. So far, there is nothing showing that what we are putting in place is not working.
Participant from USA: I would like to know what you believe the government of Rwanda should do to ensure the protection human rights of commonly marginalized groups of individuals including homosexuals and persons with disabilities.
President Kagame: What we have tried to do for people with different disabilities, is to try to understand what it is that affects them and see what we can do about that, to the extent that in the constitution we have made specific provisions to ensure that people with disabilities are taken care of. Not only by others but by themselves in the sense that they are even provided for, they have a voice in parliament, so that they can make contributions initiating laws that govern our society, and specifically those that affect them. This is what we do to ensure that their rights are respected.
On the issue of homosexuals which I would treat as a different category, let me make some clarifications; recently there has been a debate - I don’t know where it came from, but heard that there was something like that, mainly in the region, targeting homosexuals – I don’t know why they chose homosexuals.
On the acceptance or non-acceptance – you will find different levels in different countries. I believe, we have a more fair and open approach to it. For me, it should not be an issue where we target people. I learned that some people in our parliament were bringing up queries but I think that they have discussed it and found it did not warrant taking it to the level they some intended. It is some kind of grey area that they are going to manage as a grey area but not to single it out and create issues about it.
We have laws already in place that cater for existence and co-existence of different categories and create harmony in society and I think it looks like we are headed to leaving like that rather than heightening tensions and bringing out unnecessary conflicts and debates that will not help the rebuilding of our country.
Participant from Tajikistan: Like my colleagues I am grateful for this opportunity and for your invitation to learn about your beautiful country, your beautiful people and the strong spirit which was shown to us. In light of Rwanda’s great achievements under your leadership, I would like to know how you think your legacy will be sustained or can be sustained by other leaders who will follow you?
President Kagame: What we have tried to do to allow sustainability to take place, even with leaders who come after me, is not so much to concentrate on leaders but to instead concentrate on building institutions. Institutions should outlive leaders. Leaders should come and go, but institutions should remain and maybe refined to continue serving the country. Institutions and laws that have been carefully put in place to guide our development path should be the ones we invest a lot of our time and analysis on, as well as ensuring that our people from whom our leaders come are also being educated to be able to understand the present and future and learn from the past, as well as the national, continental and global problems that we face. As they grow up from the youth should be trained, educated and developed to be to take on some of these challenges in different levels of leadership. This is the only way we can ensure that there is sustainability. Our leaders should come and go, but our institutions should be strong enough to sustain leaders.
Participant from Kenya: To what extent do you think that the East African trans-boundary conflict affects the peaceful of co-existence of the Rwandan people?
President Kagame: Conflicts are not desirable in any way whether internal or trans-boundary. Conflicts, of course, divert resources, lead to a lot of destruction and we don’t need that. It is important that we try to prevent these conflicts from happening, where we can’t prevent them we should have frameworks and mechanisms to stop them, and ensure that they don’t escalate and cause the kind of damage they are capable of causing. We should all work together to avoid or stop any conflict between any of our states.
Participant from the USA: I am learning about the 1994 genocide, and I was wondering what was the main cause the made you take up arms in 1999?
President Kagame: It’s a long story. There are two periods in our history; the colonial and the post-colonial period. During both periods there was the practice of divisionism politics which pulled people apart. Teaching people that “being different is bad” became a way of life and culminated into what transpired in 1994. The state of matters during the periods led to people fleeing in 1959 and becoming refugees for decades. Myself, I grew up as a refugee in refugee camps and lived there for 25 years. Rwandans kept asking the Government of the time why it would not let people who were living outside return. But the argument at the time was that the country was too small and therefore could not provide room for more people. But if that would have been agreeable, there was also the question of people living in the country being mistreated on the basis of their background. These two phenomena led to the beginning of the struggle because the Government was adamant. Young Rwandans together with their elders then decided to take up arms and fight for their rights.
Participant from the USA: How has the Government of Rwanda dealt with the children of genocide victims, specifically the 1994 genocide, regarding property and inheritance rights?
President Kagame: We always try to address the plight of genocide survivors, the elderly and children. We created a genocide fund into which Government puts money every year to cater for medical, education and other problems facing genocide survivors. For property and inheritance, this is a right to them as it is to everybody else. Property and inheritance rights are provided for by the laws of the land. There are also some complicated problems that arose as a result of the fleeing of people in 1959. There are those who fled, left behind land and properties and when they came back found the properties had been taken over by others. We had a lot of properties with ownership contested by many people. We had to find ways, whether through compensation or dividing up land and other means of settling these disputes – but so far so good.
Participant from Ghana: Could you please elaborate on the relationships Rwanda will have in the Great Lakes Region?
President Kagame: There were problems after 1994 due to several difficulties arising from the events but there has been tremendous progress over the years and currently we are happy to say that things are much better. There has been commendable progress in the relationship between Rwanda and the DRC where we are now working together on many fronts to solve our common problems. We are now members of the East African Community and we are working quite closely and cordially with all our neighbours in finding solutions that affect us.
Participant from USA: Reconciliation is strongly emphasized in Rwanda, how has reconciliation been between Rwanda and other nations and what steps are you taking to create this reconciliation?
President Kagame: Reconciliation has gone on more significantly within our borders. We have been managing our population and the diversity therein, and at the same time we have also been seeking good understanding not only with our neighbours but others far from our borders who have been associated with many events in our history, including countries in Europe and elsewhere. Much as this may not termed reconciliation but mending relations and having better understanding is based on the principle of reconciliation. This is going very well, even with France that we had problems with relating to their involvement in the history of our country. We have had good communication, the new situation with the different leadership in the last couple of years. France has enabled us to reach an understanding after having had misunderstandings due to several problems.
Participant from Kenya: What is the Rwandan government doing to facilitate the return of the Rwandans who left the country after the war and still feel that the country is not ripe for them to come back?
President Kagame: This has been work in progress and we have registered great success. From 1994 to 1998 we had millions of people living out of the country; at the beginning we had three million people living in DRC, Burundi, Uganda as refugees and almost all those have returned to the country and settled and are part of all the developments you have seen. There are few who are still out of the country especially those who were leaders or associated in one way or another with the events that led to the tragic situation we had in 1994. I am sure you have heard about those who are wanted by the International criminal tribunal for Rwanda, some who are said to be hiding in Kenya or in other neighboring countries. But even for those - we want them back so that they can explain themselves to justice, and either be proven guilty or innocent, and we move along. Otherwise we have both general and targeted efforts in encouraging people to return, trying to address their problems and many have come back from neighboring countries and beyond. It is always work in progress but we are happy with where we are – so many have responded positively and there are fewer than out there, than those who have come back.
Participant from Austria: What practical steps are appropriate to ensure a full dialogue or exchange of ideas from both supporters and critics of policies of your government?
President Kagame: Yes – we are not short of critics. We listen and put whatever we hear in its right place, but life has to go on here irrespective of criticisms. We have to ensure that life goes on, we make sure we do what is right, and move on and keep listening, whether we think they are wrong or right.
There is also this phenomenon where experts or different people who say they come from places that are blessed with being examples of democracy and human rights, teach us that we have to respect people’s freedoms and choices because these create the foundation of democracy, which is true. But sometimes I am surprised when Rwandans have made their choice, then they want to say it is not the right choice.
The question is, what is the right choice? Who sets the standard of what is the right choice? Sometimes they may come and say – “no, they have chosen this Kagame man…” but if this is the person they have chosen who are they to say Rwandans should want someone different? Who is going to set the standard for us? Whatever we have tried to do here, we bear in mind two important things – first, there are our national values; our culture, traditions, norms and beliefs. We are also aware that there universal values. There are many things on which we converge universally as right. So whatever we have done we have been conscious of these two issues. There are also expectations that we ensure that these two fit well.
People have come here and happily, have appreciated what we are doing and have said, quite innocently, “this is the Switzerland of Africa” or “this the Singapore of Africa” – but I always tell them, no – this is the Rwanda of Africa. What I mean here is that in what we do, we really want to be the best we can be. We are not trying to be someone else. We try to be the best we can be in the context of Rwandan and African values.
Our struggle is to strive to decide for ourselves and be respected for our choices if they are fairly and transparently reached by Rwandans. The critics in my view are not bad, we don’t have any sleepless nights about being criticized because we are able to listen and try to understand what the criticism is about, and life has to go on, as long as the people of Rwanda are behind what is being done. If the rest of the world can be behind what we are doing we would very much appreciate it – but if they decide not to be interested or decide to be interested but differently, we still have to stay the course and move in the direction we have chosen
